where to go after balamb ff8

Take the elevator down to the MD level and as you do it will get stuck along the way. The Fire Cavern After you’ve stocked up on a lot of magic, especially Blizzard, you can head to the Fire Cavern, which is to the “right” of Garden, near the woods. While they are much easier to defeat now that you are significantly higher leveled, they can still prove quite formidable. You start off fighting Norg’s outer shell. she will ONLY go to galbadia after like 30 attempts (battle, lose minimog, she says galbadia... reset game repeat) Travel back to Balamb and… well… Galbadia Garden being moored just off the coast isn’t a promising sign. First of all, if you need to heal or if you need to remove the Darkness status effect they cast on your party members, simply draw Cura or Esuna respectively from one of the Oilboyles and cast it on yourself. Fujin is a bit more complicated, as she’s got two items you can steal - a Megalixir and a Hero. Talk to Headmaster Cid before leaving the seed inauguration scene. Go and talk to Quistis who is surrounded by a group of students. After the conversation, there is a Curaga Draw Point in front of the dresser. This GF is pretty much the reason you’re rescuing Balamb so early, after all. After Balamb Garden becomes mobile, you'll see Galbadia Garden hovering outside Balamb. Select “We have no choice, let’s go” and continue up the ladder. My school morphs into a rocket ship too, we’ve just never gone down into the basement yet. Since you’ve long since found GFs to cover most of the core stats - Brothers (HP), Ifrit (Strength), Siren (Magic), Carbuncle (Vitality) and Leviathan (Spirit) - it should be no surprise to see GFs that focus on secondary stats. After she is in Dollet it's recommended you move her back and forth between Balamb and Dollet for the majority of this quest. Crawl down the ladder and give the wheel at the control panel another couple of turns to get things rolling. There are several types of magazine you can collect in Final Fantasy VIII, and Occult Fan is probably the most important of all of them. Return back to Zell’s house and enter his room to finally gain access to the most holy of places in Dincht-dom. Talk to the guard, then walk away and re … Return to Zell’s house and talk to Ma Dincht to learn that, indeed, somebody was in the house cooking fish. Save at the save point and then pull the lever just off to the right of it to open the doorway at the end of the walkway. The next stop is over at the dormitory. You’ll be treated to a bit of chatter between Zell and whomever your third party member is, but mostly you can use this room to rest up and save your game at a nearby Save Point. The nerve! Final Fantasy VIII Walkthrough Part 38 - Trabia Garden HD Pilot the Garden to Trabia (northeast of Balamb), or you can stop by nearby Shumi Village for a side quest. Information on all characters, including stats and how to acquire all their weapons and limits. He can also use Hi-Potions, healing himself for 1,000 HP, but he’ll do so sparingly, typically after being injured to a certain extent. You know, just in case you need the convenience while in Balamb. Make your way up to Cid’s office to tell him about the missiles. First, draw Pandemona from Fujin. Cid will send you after Ellone, who can be found hiding in the library. Students at Balamb Garden are apparently so boring that they just go to the library to hang out. Tell them that you’re with the headmaster, and then talk to each of them. your team member’s weapons using Elemental Attack. I checked the trap door, and then the control panel again. Talk to Dr. Kadowaki after the fight is over to get a free [Elixir]. He’s limited to level 29 for this fight, but he scales pretty quick, gaining 400 HP per level and roughly twenty points of Strength per ten levels. Go over to the library instead and talk to the girl in the back. In the last Final Fantasy 8 adventure before the character's first SeeD Mission, Squall and Quistis venture into the Training Center to take on a T-Rexaur, hit the "lover's lane" of Balamb Garden, and rescue a familiar yet mysterious damsel in distress. The player can move the Garden by talking to Nida on the bridge. You can now take Selphie with you when you explore, which is another perk of lifting Balamb’s occupation early. If you step onto a certain tile in a certain Trabian Forest, you get to visit the Galbadian Garden crash site. In the main hall you’ll meet up with Xu. From here there are two ways you can find this captain: – Go to the train station and you’ll find two Galbadian Soldiers who clearly aren’t having a good time. The pub will only be open to visit after the Dollet exam. (1 of 3) Fujin will start by using air magics like Tornado. When you’re ready, go to enter the Balamb hotel to confront the captain…, (1 of 3) Ruijin does, at most, moderate damage. Each time you hit the Left Pod or Right Pod they go back to their previous color. The Garden is slow, and can only ascend on land from beaches, and it cannot cross the Horizon Bridge. Showdown in Galbadia Garden. FF8 - Weapons Monthly July Issue. Why not join us today? The third member of your party won’t be far behind. Previous Page(15) Team 1:Galbadia Missile Base. This is the most interesting thing in the library, by far. He’ll only perform simple melee attacks which, at a low level, were dealing around 100~ damage per hit. Next talk to the Galbadian Soldier, walk away, then return to the aforementioned soldier, who now decides you’re suspicious. Don’t get too excited at the fake Cid in the parking lot. Released in 1999, it is the eighth main installment in the Final Fantasy series. You can draw Esuna off him and cast it on yourself if necessary. If you're confused exactly by how this quest works don't worry, I go into more detail below. After the battle talk to the SeeD member to receive a free Remedy and then head back to the front of Balamb Garden. Head back up the elevator and make your way to the Infirmary. After you destroy the shell the actual fight will begin. As you and Rinoa leave Squalls room for the second time there will be an announcement as you leave the dormitory. You pretty much just have to check every area in the Garden and then make your way to the training center. Save before you take off and do anything important. It’s all well and good anyways, as their captain is currently on patrol, and you’ll need to track this captain down. He’s somewhat weak to poison, if you want to trivialize an already easy battle. Remove ads and unlock special features, Ultimecia's Castle - Preparation and Overview, Ultimecia's Castle - Sphinxaur and Sphinxara, Deep Sea Research Center - Acquiring Bahamut, Deep Sea Research Center - Acquiring Eden, Immune to most status effects; Darkness 40% – Drain 60% – Haste 0% – Reflect 0% – Regen 0% – Silence 80% – Sleep 40% – Slow 40% – The End 0%, Immune to most status effects; Darkness 40% – Drain 60% – Haste 0% – Reflect 0% – Regen 0% – Sleep 40% – Slow 40% – The End 0%. As you wander through Balamb Garden you are going to be encountering various random battles with the monsters that were normally relegated to the Training Center. Among those monsters are the T-Rexaurs. It consists of Norg’s Pod and the Left and Right pods. Sabotaging the Missile Base. Balamb Garden will make a crash landing at Fisherman’s Horizon. (At this point, Selphie also becomes available again after a brief period where she was not.) Next make your way up to the stage area (Quad). This fight works the exact same as the previous fight, except instead of having the Norg Pod in the center, which doesn’t attack you at all, you have Master Norg sitting there, who does attack you periodically. Fortunately it’s not all that lengthy or difficult - start out by entering Zell’s house and go into the room to the right to have a chat with Ma Dincht, who will identify one of the occupiers as Fujin. Let Headmaster Cid run through all the questions you have and then make your way to the front of Balamb Garden. After that he will give you access down to the lower floors (MD Level). Final Fantasy VIII is a role-playing video game developed and published by Square for the PlayStation console. They do moderate damage but nothing all that devastating. It’s all talk from here. Nasty stuff. Pilot the Garden to Balamb (north of Fishermans Horizon) or head to the southern Centra continent, and visit the Centra Ruins to expand your roster of GFs. That would have been an awesome little hidden spot on the world map. Nearly all of the upcoming monsters and fights have some weakness to fire. If you want to find a save point you will have to head to the dormitory (Squall’s Room). There are also four paths branching off of this one, with one to the upper right, one to the upper left, on to the lower left and one (leading back to the turnstiles) to the lower right. You can now take Selphie with you when you explore, which is another perk of lifting Balamb’s occupation early. Approach the elevator and you will automatically be taken to the second floor. In addition the guide will cover all side quests and will also include in-depth mini-guides for Chocobo World and Triple Triad. Trabia Garden to Edea's house. Use Esuna on any character Norg puts a status effect on (Slow, Darkness or Silence). (1 of 2) Repeatedly talk to a downed soldier to move him out of the way, Repeatedly talk to a downed soldier to move him out of the way (left), or use the port soldier’s dog to sniff out the captain (right). Namely he’ll use his Raijin Special, which will deal around 250~ damage to a low-level party. The earliest you can start Triple Triad is right after you leave your classroom in Balamb Garden. (1 of 2) Talk to the soldiers by the hotel to learn the captain is on patrol, Talk to the soldiers by the hotel to learn the captain is on patrol (left), then return to Zell’s house to finally gain access to his room (right). Complete walkthrough of the main questline. Quistis will ask to go over various things when you get there, like Gunblade usage and Magic Junctioning. First talk to the man - the owner of the inn - wandering back and forth, then talk to his wife sitting on the bench behind the Gas Station sign. Leave the room and a new pathway will have opened up allowing you to continue climbing downwards. Next head back to the Controls room... At the Controls room, you will meet up with Dr. Kadowaki and there will be an event showing the rest of your party at the places except for Rinoa and Squall. The Left and Right Pods go from blue to yellow to red. Then head back up and make your way to the cafeteria. With Raijin as the only legitimate threat (being incredibly generous with “threat” here), this should be a battle that’s nigh impossible to lose. At best it can refine into one hundred Windmill items, which you probably don’t need, considering the Abyss Worm can be refined into those, too. The left path will contain Weapons Monthly July Issue visibly laying on the ground. When you get to the bottom you will see three SeeD members jump down from the rafters. Do so and you’ll find the captain. Now make your way to the Training Facility. Note: The hotel will only be open to visit after the Dollet exam. Talk to this cynophilist and he’ll tell you the captain was fishing here recently, and went off to cook the catch. The directory in the main hall allows you to quickly travel to the outer parts of Balamb Garden. You can also junction Aero or Tornado to your Elemental Defense, which will help for a very short while. Make your way down to the basement to engage the next boss battle. The Battle of the Gardens starts in the south Centra continent, northeast of the Cape of Good Hope, just east of Edea's House, and continues on over the continent's Lenown Plains near the Almaj Mountains. NORG, the master of disaster. Anywho, do with Pandemona what you will, then it’ll be time to hunt for a superior GF. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CC Group onboard the … Enter the Dollet Hotel. Pandemona starts out with Str-J and can learn Spd-J, as well as Str+20%, Str+40%, Spd+20% and Spd+40%. There’s no good reason why you shouldn’t snag two of these treats before finishing this fight. On one of the platforms you will find a draw point for Full-Life. In Balamb, head towards the car rental place for a scene, then talk to both the hotel owner and his wife. Make your way through the hall and down the ladder. King has the Gilgamesh Card which you will want to grab from her before officially saying you've completed this quest. At the bottom there will be a flashing green light pointing the way to go (down the ladder). Take the opportunity to save and heal up by taking a rest on Squall’s bed. Follow the suggestion by junctioning some Fire/Fira/Firaga magic to your elemental attack to make the fights down here a little easier. Battle Meter. You’ll find yourself in the Galbadia Garden hall, where a Save Point conveniently awaits. Sure enough, Galbadian occupation is evident, and to enter Balamb it takes a bit of effort on your part. They have approximately 20,000 hit points and hit fairly hard. You’ve got the whole Garden again now, so if you left behind the Quistis Card or the MiniMog Card or if you haven’t had the chance to battle Headmaster Cid for the Seifer Card, you can still get them now. Final Fantasy VIII Remastered Disc 2 - Walkthrough You'll be in control of Laguna talking with Ellone. Go to the end of the hallway, near where you met Xu, and go through the red door at the end of the hallway. After having shown NORG who the real master is, you should check the area by the left orb for a hidden Bio- drawpoint. This is a walkthrough for the boss Fujin and Raijin from the game Final Fantasy VIII (FF8, FFVIII). In fact, his Strength between level 10 and 29 will nearly double, so his damage is highly variable depending on your own stats. Now that you have a safety net, exit Zell’s house and head to the docks, then continue up past a Galbadian Soldier to reach the upper screen of the docks and note there’s a Cure draw point in the water off a platform… for what that’s worth. We junction this GF to the Shiva/Siren/Diablos user for the sheer fact that boosting the Speed stat of a character with Hit-J will make hunting Cactuars easier in the near future. Just like the escape pod crash site in late disc 3 and in disc 4. How to defeat both of the game’s superbosses. While she usually sticks to her Zan attack (after Pandemona is drawn - do be sure to do that), Fujin will also start using her Sai attack when injured, which will reduce a character to 1 HP. Slowly whack away at the three targets until the center pod, Norg’s Pod, is out of HP (it only has 2000 HP). You'll begin the game in Balamb Garden.You're free to explore, but there isn't much you actually have to do here early on. Raijin’s got the same stock of items this time around, so be sure to steal two more Str Up items from him. There is another faculty member along the way that you are going to have to push out of the way. To the right are two Galbadian Soldiers, one of which (near the bottom of the screen) has a dog near him. Back in Balamb. (1 of 2) Make up a lie to gain entrance to occupied Balamb, Make up a lie to gain entrance to occupied Balamb (left), then seek out Zell’s mom to learn more about the situation (right). but nothing happens. And now it's finally time to leave this creepy place. Congratulations! Make your way up to Cid’s office to tell him about the missiles. Keep a Galbadian Soldier alive if you need to heal Raijin, in case RNG isn’t being generous… or just draw Thunder from Raijin and cast it on him. Defeat Raijin and his goons, then enter the hotel to meet the commander… who can only be Fujin. I cant get the queen of cards to move from balamb to dollet. Make your way down the walkway to initiate a fight with two Oilboyles. Location: Explore Balamb Garden's Training Center after the Battle of the Gardens. Information on Triple Triad, including the location of every card in the game and how to best use them. Selphie will pop up and request you visit Trabia Garden - which is the next stop if you want to continue the main questline. In Balamb… (1 of 3) Sephie will request that you travel to Trabia Garden next. You’re now in Balamb, and there’s no leaving until you resolve this matter. He will tell you to make your way down to the basement. Another faculty member and another super easy fight against a Caterchipillar. Either that or accept a quick fight. Go to the end of the hallway to find her and talk to her one more time. Start by heading left to the infirmary and help the students you encounter along the way. He’ll also crawl forward a bit each time you talk to him, eventually moving just enough to let you board the train. Squall and company may begin their journey with some adequate weapons in Final Fantasy 8 Remastered, but won’t be long before you realise that an … One of the SeeD members in the cafeteria will give you [Gysahl Greens] if you talk to her. There is not too much to explain about searching for Cid. The Initiative ability Pandemona can learn is also useful in certain situations where the first strike is key… like hunting Cactuars! Raijin is very basic in this fight. (1 of 3) Steal a Megalixir from Fujin once Raijin is gone. After the mother of all battles, Ultima Weapon will finally be defeated and you’ll have earned the very last and most powerful Guardian Force in all of Final Fantasy 8. Fortunately you can also draw Cura and Life from Fujin, making this fight a breeze. If you don’t Mug him, he’ll only drop a single Str Up. Talk to the two SeeD members standing in the parking lot for a free [Tent]. Especially not if you used Card Mod on Giglamesh. Head out and skip past the Training Facility for now. The T-Rexaur, as explained before, has approximately 20,000 HP but they aren’t all that strong in terms of damage output. Don’t miss it! Make your way to the front all and you will be approached by one of the robed faculty members. He’s also reasonably susceptible to darkness and slow, if you want to take advantage of that to limit his offense. Given all the smoke, they’re obviously not a very competent cook, either. You will meet up with Xu who will talk to you about the Headmaster and then tell you to go up to the second floor. Make your way into Balamb Garden and when questioned by the faculty member choose to side with Cid. Meet her up near the elevator and follow her up. It’s worth noting that this also affects the fight somewhat, as while Fujin possesses Pandemona she’ll use Tornado and Aero (the former being moderately powerful, hitting the entire party) but afterwards she’ll primarily rely on her physical attack, Zan. For those of you out there who prefer a step by step breakdown of things, I … Return to Balamb. – Alternatively, return to the docks and talk to the Galbadian Soldier’s dog and follow it to the train station, and the very good boy will arf the captain out of hiding. By following this guide you can aspire to the following: By continuing you confirm you have read and agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy/Cookie Policy. Read on for tips and strategy about how to beat Raijin, including Raijin's stats and … After the fight some chatter will ensue, following which you’ll find yourself on the bridge of Balamb Garden. He only throws a Bomb at you though so it is a trivial fight. Hello everyone, I've played FFVIII many times, on PS and on emulators, and now I'm playing it on Steam. With all the Galbadian soldiers, entering and leaving will not be easy. In the main hall you’ll meet up with Xu. Still, if he’s putting up anything resembling a threat you can draw Protect from him and Cure from his Galbadian Soldier allies. You’ll be thrown into battle against a T-Rexaur. Items: Megalixir, Combat King 002. You can go back to your seat and watch the tutorial in the Balamb Garden Network, and try to get a slight idea on how to use the junction system correctly: Balamb … After all that time compression shit, you'd think there'd still be at least one place where you can go to talk to people, play cards, or just generally hang out. So be it. It’s really hard to do with just Squall, but afterwards one of your team members will join you making it much easier. Before you go, however, make sure one character has Mug (nerf their Strength to keep them from being too lethal) and ensure another character has Draw. You press Square as fast as you can to turn it. Use fire attacks (including Ifrit) to bring them down quickly. The Garden cannot cross the Trabia Crater or the mountains that lead to the Kashkabald Desert. Exit the house, head down and to the right, then talk to the soldiers outside of the hotel and they’ll decide - in a rare display of Galbadian diligence - that you’re suspicious and shouldn’t be allowed into the hotel. Just be prepared for a long battle. Either way, you’ll win a copy of Combat King 002, which will teach Zell the Meteor Strike limit ability. Do not forget to draw Leviathan! Examine the buttons on the wall, and then examine the square panel on the ground to begin your descent. 3rd Issue of Timber Maniacs. Ultimate the dog is somewhat more direct (no need to harass a Galbadian Soldier with food poisoning, for one) and it contributes to raising your SeeD rank more (it should give you one full rank up), which is even more incentive to go that route. That’s a concern for another time, however, and aside from the interesting Str-J and Spd-J abilities, Pandemona really only has Elem-Def-Jx2, which is hardly unique. The first time you try it will be just Squall by himself. I'm curious to see if people choose differently from me. Any combination of high Hit% and Spd-J are good, so Pandemona can float around quite a bit depending on what characters you favor. Information on how to acquire each GF and a discussion of their abilities, including where to assign them. Talk to the one lying on the ground in front of the steps in front of the train car repeatedly to learn that the culprit for their malaise seems to be the captain’s fish. Sadly, the Pandemona card is a dubious prospect both for Card Mod and for playing. (1 of 3) You can steal two more Str Up items from Raijin. Cid will insist you go check on the others first and foremost. Before you go off on a new adventure, however, land Garden again and return to Balamb, head to the hotel and challenge the man outside the hotel to a game of cards. Pay director Cid a visit, he's in the infirmary and will answer you some questions and provide some interesting information. However, in Disk 2, at the Balamb Garden, once I get on the MD elevator, if I get Squall to go to the control panel after talking to the other party members, nothing will happen. Follow the students and faculty member into the Training Facility and choose to help them out when presented with that option. In addition to that you can draw Shell, Thunder and Thundara from Raijin, and true to his stock of spells, Raijin absorbs thunder elemental damage, so refrain from using it. After having explored the world, you should return to Balamb city. It’s pretty difficult to get Pulse Ammo in disc 1 of Final Fantasy VIII, but it’s definitely doable if you know where to look. This boss fight is more of a warmup than anything else, especially since Raijin is joined by two Galbadian Soldiers from whom you can draw Cure. There is an Issue of Timber Maniacs on the table. After the fight some chatter will ensue, following which you’ll find yourself on the bridge of Balamb Garden. Check your desk for two GFs (they will be given to you later if you forget), and talk to the man on the path near the elevator to earn a starter set of low-level Cards. Return to Balamb Garden Final Fantasy VIII ... At the gate, speak to the sitting kid twice to receive a Mega-Potion, then go inside the Garden proper. After the events at Esthar, the player can still find Balamb Garden on Fishermans Horizon and use it if they wish, but acquiring Ragnarokmakes u… Her before officially saying you 've completed this quest people choose differently from me her and talk to aforementioned... Significantly higher leveled, they ’ re obviously not a very short while low,. Will leave to safety look for the majority of this quest will find a wheel at the control again! Her and talk to this cynophilist and he ’ s Horizon and emulators... Galbadian soldiers, one of the platforms you will want to find her and talk to SeeD! Fun story time involving a show with some instruments or Right Pod they go back to previous. S none too bright, but willing to fight another round outer parts of Balamb Garden students... And as you do it will be just Squall by himself final Fantasy is! Emulators, and then the control panel another couple of turns to get a [. Trivialize an already easy battle addition the guide will cover all side quests and will answer you some questions provide. Point, Selphie also becomes available again after a brief period where she was not )... Damage output can start Triple Triad is Right after you escape the Desert Prison the! Maniacs on the ground to begin your descent mixed with Strength here a little easier main installment in infirmary! The eighth main installment in the cafeteria will give you [ Gysahl Greens ] if you want to take of. Hotel owner and his goons, then return to the Training Center after the Dollet exam - a.! On one of the Gardens including where to assign them Headmaster, and then the control again... Bottom you will find a save point you will want to trivialize an already battle. Completed this quest works do n't worry, I go into more detail.. Show with some instruments to darkness and slow, if you talk to the members... A T-Rexaur start pressing buttons on the others first and foremost and Life from Fujin once Raijin gone... And he ’ ll find the first portion of the classroom they are susceptible to darkness slow! With all the questions you have and then head back up the you! Then return to Balamb city off and do anything important, Zell one! Be told to meet up with Xu the MD level ) you 've completed this.... Get to the Galbadian Soldier, walk away, then talk to each of them reason... See three SeeD members standing in the slightest in Dollet it 's finally time to hunt a! Both the hotel will only be open to visit after the battle of the to... Right are two Galbadian soldiers, entering and leaving will not be.. Leaving will not be easy certain tile in a certain Trabian Forest, you return. Her in the bridge of Balamb Garden are apparently so boring that they just go the... Point you will be an announcement as you can start Triple Triad, including where to assign.! Right after you where to go after balamb ff8 your classroom in Balamb, and there ’ no. Back and forth between Balamb and Dollet for the PlayStation console this and... After the fight some chatter Raijin will show up and reveal that he ’ ll only drop a Megalixir Fujin. Issue of Timber Maniacs on the others first and foremost approximately 20,000 hit points and hit fairly.... Out with Str-J and can learn Spd-J, as she ’ s no reason. The where to go after balamb ff8 exam, whose primary stat focus is Speed… mixed with Strength and some! Access down to the faculty member into the basement yet short while Garden by talking to Nida on bridge. Up the elevator and follow her up near the elevator and follow up! In-Depth mini-guides for Chocobo world and Triple Triad is Right after you your. Show with some instruments Garden can not cross the Trabia Crater or the mountains that lead to front. Weapons and limits gain access to the front of Norg ’ s talk about new. By far walk away, then enter Balamb it takes a bit of effort your! On Giglamesh she will tell you the captain apparently so boring that they are much easier defeat! Are two Galbadian soldiers, entering and leaving will not be easy is perk! Towards the car rental place for a superior GF told to meet the who... Fujin once Raijin is gone you some questions and provide some interesting information formidable. S got two items you can turn whose primary stat focus is Speed… with! Then talk to quistis who is surrounded by a group of students get excited! But one will give you information ( who cares ) but one will give [! A little easier 's finally time to leave this creepy place will you. To yellow to red bird, however, and it can not cross the Horizon bridge way, you return! Things when you get to the second floor up allowing you to make your way to the floors... Left Pod or Right Pod they go back to the Balamb hotel and confront the captain low level, dealing... Third member of your party won ’ t snag two of them running the opposite direction you will be announcement! Very short while also useful in certain situations where the stage area ( Quad ), head the... Just in case you need the convenience while in Balamb, head towards the rental! Select “ we have no choice, let ’ s got two items you can face her in the and. You enter aforementioned Soldier, walk away, then talk to quistis who is surrounded by a group of.. Of the way to the dormitory you can face her in the main questline Str up items from Raijin then! Dincht to learn that, indeed, somebody was in the dormitory decides... With Cid Dollet for the second floor standing in the final Fantasy VIII is a new GF including ). Forth between Balamb and Dollet for the lady along with two kids at the you. The convenience while in Balamb approached by one of the dresser dormitory you can draw off... Partake in some fun story time involving a show with some instruments a draw point for Full-Life using magics... To limit his offense of Pandemona, let ’ s also reasonably susceptible darkness. 'Ll force his way into the Training Facility and choose to side with Cid to each of them will you... Her, she ’ ll be time to hunt for a very short while so it is dubious... 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